Transcript: Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo on "Face the Nation," September 3, 2023_我的网站
A | 近年来，微短剧在网络上掀起了一股热潮，成为人们新兴的娱乐方式。
B | The following is a transcript of an interview with Secretary of Commerce Gina Raimondo that aired on "Face the Nation" on September 3, 2023.
ROBERT COSTA: We now go to the Secretary of Commerce Gina Raimondo. Good morning, Secretary. Thanks for being here. Let's begin with the economy. On Friday, the Bureau of Labor Statistics released the jobs report for August, and people around their tables this weekend are looking at it. It shows 187,000 jobs were added last month, exceeding expectations. But more people are working more than one job. How worried are you about this?SECRETARY GINA RAIMONDO: Good morning, thanks for having me. This jobs report is exactly what we want to see at this point in the recovery. As you just said, you know, creating more jobs, really exciting is that people are getting off of the sidelines. You know, we're seeing more people come into the labor force and there are jobs for them. As you say, people are working, you know, more than one job and wages are up, it should be said, but this is exactly why President Biden is so focused on creating manufacturing jobs, which are higher paid, getting folks the skills they need to get a higher paying job. There's still a lot of work to do to make sure that every American has the skills they need to get a job, which is family support and sustaining. But- and we're doing that work. But overall, there's a lot to like in this jobs report. And it's exactly- it exceeded our expectations. ROBERT COSTA: In terms of that work that's still to be done, the administration is touting its efforts. It's confident in the economy. But our CBS News polling, Secretary, shows 65% of Americans still view the economy as being in a bad place. Why do you believe your administration, along with President Biden, has struggled to reassure those Americans about these policies and about the economy?SEC. RAIMONDO: So it's- it's an interesting, you know, dichotomy between the- the numbers, and as you say the polling numbers or the- the perception numbers, I think the reality is that inflation still exists. And it is, you know, something that people see on a daily basis when they go to the grocery store, or pay their rent, or pay their mortgage. And we have to know that, you know, that's still a challenge for folks. That being said, if you look at where we are today, compared to when the President took office, it's an unbelievable story of progress. And I will tell you, even I, you know, his- the President's Commerce Secretary, if you had told me when we started based on where the economy was, how high the unemployment rate was, how, you know, disrupted supply chains were, that we'd be sitting here now with this jobs picture, I might not have believed it. I mean, it's just a stunning amount of progress. The economy- we're among the strongest economies in the world. We all went through COVID, right, Europe did, China did, Asia did yet we have emerged, the fastest and the strongest. So I don't want to minimize what Americans are feeling, and that's why we get up and go to work every day. But this economy by any measure is doing incredibly well and much better than anyone could have predicted I think three years ago when we started.
ROBERT COSTA: After looking back, let's also look ahead, the White House is working with Congress to hammer out an agreement on a short term funding measure to avoid an October 1 partial federal government shutdown. When you talk to business leaders right now, are they worried about this deadline and what a shutdown could mean for the US economy?SEC. RAIMONDO: Yes, they are worried- they're very worried. They are, I think, in some cases, frustrated that this is how government operates. You know, what businesses need to be successful is- is predictability, you know, predictability, some semblance of, you know, regular order. And so these sorts of disruptions that are mainly driven by politics. So it's a challenge for the economy and have the potential to set us back. So I do hope that there will be a speedy resolution.ROBERT COSTA: Secretary, you are the first commerce secretary in five years to be on the ground in China in recent days. What progress, if any, do you think you made on the ground there?SEC. RAIMONDO: I think we made a great deal of progress. In terms of concrete deliverables, I was able to open three specific lines of communication with the Chinese, which is a huge step forward. We haven't really had any contact in more than five years. So we agreed to share information about export controls, we agreed to open a dialogue on commercial issues, which is so important, because China has not treated US business fairly. And so it's- we got to put those issues on the table. And we agree to have exchange around trade secrets, another area where businesses need to- deserve to know that their trade secrets will be protected in China. But I think more than any of that we just are starting to resume a direct line of contact and communication, which we need to do if we're going to manage what is a very complex and potentially volatile relationship with China.
ROBERT COSTA: So people may be heartened to hear at least some that the US and the Chinese, they're talking, there's open lines of communication right now. But what's next, beyond having this dialogue? What specifically can you say is going to happen next?SEC. RAIMONDO: So my message to the Chinese officials with whom I met is that action speaks louder than words. So they gave verbal assurances that they will treat US businesses fairly, that they will not engage in non-market practices which hurt American workers. And my message was, well, let's see it. You know, actions speak louder than words. So time will tell whether they are going to really be as they say they want to be, you know, more market oriented and open and reform minded when it comes to their economy, their regulatory regime. They need to be less arbitrary in the way they administer regulations to actually give American businesses a fair shot to compete.ROBERT COSTA: You said on the trip that quote, increasingly, I hear from American business that China is uninvestable, because it becomes too risky. So what exactly did you get in terms of those assurances from the Chinese, that would really give confidence to American business leaders?SEC. RAIMONDO: They said that they would talk to American businesses and begin to address these issues. Like, for example, one of the complaints I hear frequently from US business, by the way, business who are used to doing business in- in difficult parts of the world. They say that, you know, China's regulations are not at all transparent. You know, they'll raid a business in March and not explain what went on for many months. They will arrest folks but not provide due process or tell you what happened. And so when I expressed these concerns, I was heard, I wasn't given any promises. But one thing that I think we can take a bit of heart in is it's in China's interest. It's in their economic interest to have foreign direct investment and to make sure, you know, they had a very good economy when they were market oriented and reform minded. And so we have to hope that self interest will affect their future decisions.ROBERT COSTA: So they might have that motivation, but you saw them face to face, you had meetings with them. That's the value of having these sorts of trips. Do you trust the Chinese at this point after all of your conversations, after digesting what happened on your trip, do you trust them?SEC. RAIMONDO: Trust is probably not the word I would use. We need to see action. And until we see action, there can be no trust.ROBERT COSTA: And they hacked into your own email account so that might have hurt the ability to have a trustworthy relationship.
SEC. RAIMONDO: Exactly. And I said that, you know, hacking my account erodes trust, undermining American workers, by over subsidizing certain industries erodes trust, treating American businesses unfairly on the ground erodes trust. So but, you know, look, I- we can't be naive and oversimplify this relationship, this very challenging relationship. But we have to be practical, right? We have to protect ourselves first and foremost, national security, the United States. Beyond that we have to be practical and look for places where we can have a strong commercial relationship because we need stability in this relationship. That's good for America. And- and I think it's what the world is expecting of us and of China.ROBERT COSTA: You're looking for stability, Secretary. But the big question is, is China's economy stable? There have been indicators over the last several months that showed China's economy's in a slowdown. When you were over there, did you get insights, if any, about whether the Chinese economy is slowing down? And how concerning would that be for the United States?SEC. RAIMONDO: I think there's no question that it is slowing down. And certainly they're having real, real significant challenges in the real estate sector, which they readily acknowledged when I was there. But again, to my mind, the facts are quite clear in this regard. When China was more market oriented, open, you know, a little bit more transparent, their economy did very well. And more recently, as they have closed down and become more arbitrary in the way they administer regulations, the economy is quite challenged. So time will tell. The decision- the ball's in their court- the decisions are theirs. We want a large and stable economic relationship with them, but they have to play by the rules. And we are always going to act in our own American self-interest.ROBERT COSTA: Speaking of playing by the rules, there's such a standoff right now between the Chinese and tech companies. Semiconductors are crucial for our economy, yet China's threatening to curb the mineral supply to the US and the West. And many US businesses tell CBS they're operating in China, but seeing this hostile environment with raids, and fines. So how is your administration going to solve this back and forth between the Chinese and the tech industry?SEC. RAIMONDO: This is exactly why I went to China. It's exactly why I went, showed up, had meetings. I met with my counterpart for more than four hours. I met with the premier for more than one hour. They were open, candid, honest discussions. How are we going to resolve these issues? Because I'll tell you, prior to going to China, I personally spoke with more than 100 US business leaders and labor leaders. And what they tell me is that even the ones that have been doing business in China for decades, you know, these are sophisticated people used to dealing with the traditional concerns of, you know, IP- IP theft or non-market practices. They say, it's much harder now. Right? Like China is making it more difficult because of the reasons you say the raids, the counter espionage law. They are going to make a business decision to do business in other countries unless that improves. And so I was very clear with China that we need to- patience is wearing thin among American business. They need and deserve a predictable environment and a level playing field. And hopefully China will heed that message so we can have a stable growing commercial relationship.ROBERT COSTA: And there are many voices as you know in the ears of American business leaders. A Wall Street Journal report, earlier this year, for example, said that the FBI director, Christopher Wray, wants businesses to help fight China and cyber threats. He reportedly said that only through cooperation with the FBI can that agency marshal an effective response. Do you agree with Director Wray?SEC. RAIMONDO: I agree that business has an important role to play partnering with us to ensure America's national security across a range of different areas, including technology. And, you know, that's why we are in such close contact with business, frankly, often the information they have on the ground is some of the best that we can- we can get.
ROBERT COSTA: But is it good for businesses to work with the FBI specifically?SEC. RAIMONDO: Every business has to make their own decision. But I definitely think there's value- there's mutual value for business, and certainly for the government to have communication and coordination.ROBERT COSTA: And I'm often out on the campaign trail, Secretary. And I know you stay out of politics. But one thing I'm hearing from so many Republicans across the country, especially governors, they want to block Chinese companies from making investments and buying farmland in the United States. Does the Biden administration and do you support Chinese companies making investments and buying farmland in the United States?SEC. RAIMONDO: We have to be very, very careful, we have to screen every investment and make a decision as to whether it hurts our national security or not. Not every investment from China into America is- harms our national security, but many do. And so it's a case by case basis, looking into the facts and being as tough as we need to be, but also being, you know, realistic and not hyperbolic. Just being, like I say, practical. It's time to be practical, pragmatic and serious about managing every aspect of this relationship.ROBERT COSTA: Secretary Raimondo, we appreciate you taking the time on a Sunday. Thank you.SEC. RAIMONDO: Thank you. Have a great Labor Day weekend. 。
C | 然而，随之而来的付费模式也引发了广泛的争议，微短剧付费到底有多“坑”？ 根据媒体调查，不少消费者都表示遭遇了诸如被自动续费、缴费后难以取消订阅、充值后才发现观看内容缩水甚至根本没有宣传中的内容、写着免费实则看几集后收费、申请退款却找不到入口等等。付费微短剧俨然正被一些心怀叵测的运营者变成与消费者斗智斗勇的游戏。图源：卡乐图片 摄影/贾琼 剧集收费不定 观剧消费没谱 据了解，微短剧收费模式主要可以归纳为以下几种：一是订阅制收费模式，用户可以选择按月、季度、年支付一定费用，以获取观看权限。二是按次收费模式，用户可以按照观看剧集的集数进行付费，例如“0.9元解锁一集”或“9.9元解锁整部剧”的收费方式。
D | 三是广告收入模式，微短剧运营者以在剧中插播广告来获取收入，看了广告的消费者不需要缴费观剧。四是付费下载，部分平台提供付费下载服务，用户支付一定费用下载自己喜欢的内容以便离线观看。目前采用较多的收费模式是前三种，且往往是一个应用同时存在这几种收费模式供消费者选择。
E | 但无论哪种收费模式都不算便宜，而且付费观看还有可能被“算计”。媒体记者体验多款短剧平台发现，大多需支付200—300元每年。追不同的剧需多平台会员，有的消费者为此每年花费或达数千元。 有些消费者认为按剧集缴费、只为自己喜欢的剧集买单比较划算。但事实上，这种模式“水最深”，观众都需先用现金充值，然后购买应用里的虚拟货币并按照标价兑换剧集。 媒体记者在某短剧小程序上观看了一部80集的热播短剧，在免费观看了9集后屏幕弹出付费链接页面。
F | 连接页面顶端标明“本集需付费150金豆”，下方则显示各种缴费兑换标准。
G | 照150金豆可以观看一集计算（每集观看所需金豆有时是不一样的），根据提示花39元购买的3900个金豆只能看26集。想要看完这部短剧消费者需要花费117元。 同时，在不少微短剧应用中都没有找到充值说明、使用规则或用户须知。无论什么应用平台，收费方式都大同小异，但是没有发现任何付费协议、说明。付款页面也不许截屏，只要试图截屏就会弹出“当前页面涉及隐私内容，不允许截屏”的字样，这样一来消费者难以留下充值证据维权。付款页面无法截屏（资料图片） 涉嫌强制续费 消费体验欠佳 北京的陈女士表示，短剧的剧情包括很多家庭矛盾，还有很多反转，很吸引老年人。自己的母亲一个月下来要花费几百元观看这些短剧。由于老年人使用手机不熟练，有时在收到“解锁一集只需0.9元”等广告宣传的诱导后，很难注意到“默认下一集自动解锁”等选项，导致其在不知情的状况下连续观看而被扣费。 在某免费短剧App上，如果想付费开通会员，页面便会弹出弹窗显示，“如需开通，请先同意《会员服务协议》和《自动续费服务协议》”，如果消费者不同意开通自动续费，就无法购买会员。不同意自动续费就无法开通会员（资料图片） 尽管该应用《自动续费服务协议》中提到，自动续费功能可以随时取消。但是有消费者吐槽，按照平台客服指示操作，但就是找不到关闭自动续费功能的入口。
H | 虽然通过微短剧应用难以取消自动续费，不过任何自动续费都需要从支付平台扣款，消费者可以尝试从源头阻断，在支付平台（比如支付宝、微信等）直接关闭某个应用的自动续费功能。 短剧市场坑多 亟待规范发展 不少消费者还表示，充值后经常面临剧集变短、无法观看、二次付费等问题，而成为年度会员后也会面临看完一部剧就无新剧可看的境遇。 媒体记者体验某短剧小程序时，出现“免费观看”的二维码链接，扫码后加微信被引导至另一个微短剧小程序，随后自动出现了一部短剧，仅免费看9集后即弹出收费页面，说好的“免费”根本不存在。 免费变收费，虽然忽悠了消费者，但毕竟可以选择不付费观看，而有的消费者则是付费后发现上当，却无法退款。
I | 有消费者反映，在另一款短剧App上先是花了60元按集购买观看，觉得太贵后充值了99元的月会员，准备免费观看所有微短剧时发现，App里面就没有几部剧，有类似经历的消费者不在少数。 更令消费者糟心的是，当对微短剧应用的服务不满意时，想退费根本退不了。一位消费者称，他首次充了49.9元，买了几千个币，本以为可以看好多集，结果没看几集钱就不够了，只好又充了199元，看了几集发现是个无底洞，就想将剩下的钱退回，但是怎么都联系不上客服。 原来部分应用中根本没有联系客服的选择，有的应用将客服的联系方式藏在服务条款中，消费者如果不认真从头读到尾，根本发现不了，想退费也自然无从下手。
